Breaking Free: Life After Mormonism and Embracing Christ

Foreign podcast, bringing you encouragement and challenging believers to spiritual change and growth by applying biblical principles to everyday life.

And now your hosts, Sasso Mendez and Ben Arellano.

Welcome, everybody, to the Abundant Life podcast.

This is episode number 67, and I'm here with my good friend and faithful servant in the faith, Sasso Mendez.

Hey, good evening, Ben.

What's up, brother?

How you doing?

I think we're doing well because we've two podcasts, like, pretty close together.

Yeah, we're almost on schedule, bro.

Like, it just doesn't normally happen.

Like.

No, it's not.

Since we started.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

We were like, ah, we're gung ho.

It's like January 2nd, being at the gym.

And then the 6th of January, you're.

Like, yeah, New Year's resolution out the window.

Let's watch tv.

And today, well, we've got a special guest with us today.

We have Cody.

Cody, would you introduce yourself?

Yeah.

Thanks for having me here.

I've been looking forward to this.

I'm Cody Bentley.

I've been in Phoenix, Arizona for past 15 years.

I work in tax for PricewaterhouseCoopers.

Okay.

And performance coach.

And performance coaching.

I'm trying to get into more performance coaching, but putting that on the side a little bit and focusing on just my job in tax right now, but planning to build it up in the future with the performance coaching.

I saw you have Tacoma been.

I don't know.

Ben saw that.

Yeah.

Like Tacomas.

Yeah, it's.

I call it the.

The show pony.

Sometimes my friends make fun of me because I don't really take it off roading.

It's the.

The show pony.

Why, why would you, though?

You know what I mean?

You know, I.

If I was 16 again, I would love to drive that thing all over the mountainside and.

But you know, it's just more.

But you buy an 88 for that.

You know what I mean?

Right?

Yeah.

I mean, it's like new shoes in school, nobody, like, I never ran a race with the new shoes.

I take them off and put my old shoes on.

And then when I went into class, I put the new shoes back.

I would never.

But I played basketball in these shoes, though.

You know I'm saying, like, I mean.

In the gym or outside on the back?

In the gym.

I know I wouldn't wear myself.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You were on the pavement.

You take it easy.

Yeah.

Like, Pastor, he takes his brand new Bronco and it's all dirty.

And like, that's like a fifty thousand dollar vehicle.

Like, what are you doing?

We did take the Jeep up in the mountains and that was fun.

I mean, it, you know, wasn't necessarily a super expensive vehicle, but it wasn't either cheap either and, but it was nice looking.

But we did, we did take it up in the hills, but you know.

The trees scratch it if you get too, like.

Yeah, Arizona print striping.

Yeah, we, but we didn't, we didn't take it to that extreme, you know, we took it in the mountains and we got it dirty, muddy.

That's okay.

I just wouldn't want to get it dented or scratched.

But it was black too, so you got to watch out, be careful, you know, because black scratches.

You notice everything on black.

Yeah.

So.

But yeah, Tacoma, man, I did see.

The Tacoma out there.

That's my.

One of my dream, dream vehicles or, or tundra.

I do like the tundras.

I mean, you're gonna waste a lot more gas, but.

And I don't really have need for a truck.

I just like them.

Like, I think they're just cool.

Like.

Yeah, I think it's just cool to have like a, like a V8, you know, lifted.

You know, they have like big ma babe magnet cars.

That's like, help me move.

Magnet car is a truck, right?

Oh, you got a truck, right?

Can, can you help me move?

It's July or it's August.

Like, like, are we friends?

Oh, we're friends on Facebook.

Like.

Oh, yeah, that.

That says a lot.

We're not really friends.

We're just.

Yeah, yeah.

So.

So, Cody, what do you, you know, what's your poison?

What do you like to eat, man?

Like, where do you, where do you go?

Like, what's, what's your, what's your go to when you're, you know, you're gonna go out, eat.

All right.

So Crazy Mike's wings.

You guys been there?

Yeah, I've seen it.

I've not been there.

You've been there.

That's a Pastor George endorsement right there.

It is, it is.

I.

I got onto it before I met Pastor George, so.

Okay, they got the spicy fries, the spicy garlic parmesan wings, the dry rub.

It's pretty good.

It's 20 bucks, though, for 12 wings.

It's pretty pricey.

It is pricey.

I got a second loan when I went there, but I heard the second line of credit.

I heard the wings are pretty meaty.

Like, I heard they're beefy.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, you Go to B Dub sometimes and chicken.

The chickens don't have leg day.

You know, it's just they're a little.

Like day about chest.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I don't know.

I'm gonna have to try it out.

I've not.

I think they are a bit meatier and I think they do their homemade sauces right, like.

They do.

They do.

And yeah, the spices, the rubs.

Georgia said they use tallow.

So does B Dubs, you know.

True, true.

But yeah, I think that's.

I like to support small business too, you know, on a Sunday night, if Rebecca's not with me, I will go to crazy Mike's.

It's on the way home.

They put a little bit more sauce than I like.

You know, I like a little dry.

You want to get the dry rub?

The dry rub?

Yeah, There you go.

But it's good.

Do they make them extra crispy?

They said they did, but.

Are they breaded or are they.

No, straight up.

Just like beat ups.

Okay, okay.

Just like beat up.

Just straight up.

Yeah.

Nice.

So that's your favorite place to go?

You know, we went to Buffalo Wild Wings too, not too long ago, and it was Pastor George and my friends Chris and Jeff.

I've seen him there a couple times.

And they mentioned how often you had been sasso with at Buffalo Wildling.

The waitress.

The waitress actually came over to our table and repeated us your order.

Wow.

She said he usually gets this.

Sometimes once in a while he'll substitute out this side.

But it's pretty much traditionally this order.

And she just repeated it.

That's Chelsea.

Chelsea.

That's Chelsea.

So now she's got a shout out on the podcast.

Now we have reason to tell her, hey, you need to listen to the podcast.

I've invited her to Freedom the last.

And so, yeah, so episode 67, that's, you know, Chelsea.

The funny thing is that she has my number memorized and so if I go there with the party, I'll text her.

And then she did send me a picture of her brand new niece.

So, I mean, I mean, we're like homies.

We're not Facebook friends yet, but we're moving towards that.

You know what I mean?

Working towards that.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, I went there, I think Monday already.

I figured you'd already been there two, three times.

I told Cody, go about four times a week.

I just been there once this week.

We're gonna go tonight and we're gonna probably go tomorrow.

Yes, at least three in there.

And crazy.

I think of crazy.

Mike's.

Is it crazy?

Mike's.

Right.

Yeah.

If they had, like.

They have that Kool Aid.

I love iced tea.

So if they had iced tea, I might sit down there.

But BDubs is close to work, and, I mean, our waitress is phenomenal.

And so 13 bucks lunch special, you can't beat it.

And we're working on the other two waitresses.

I mean, they're.

They're just right behind Chelsea doing pretty.

Pretty decent.

I mean, there was one before Chelsea that was pretty good.

She left, and then she brought me.

Two teas to start, which, you know, I fell in love with her for that.

For that reason.

Well, I mean, on her last day, on the way out, she just comped our meal.

Yeah, she didn't.

We didn't even pay.

No, we didn't.

And I felt.

I mean, we still tipped her.

I think we still tipped her.

We've tipped her well.

Yeah.

Yeah, we gave her the tip for what we would pay in the food.

Yeah, we.

We sent her on her way very well.

So.

Yeah, but.

So I don't go.

Pastor George doesn't go as often as I do, but he does go there.

And I.

I was there, and I saw him come in and he did the all you can eat wings about a week and a half ago, and he put out.

He put down 20.

Wow.

20 wings.

I mean, I think I've put down 15 is probably the most I've put down.

And it's because Diane and I both ordered.

We ordered, I think, 20 wings, and she, you know, smashed five.

That's out of five.

She tapped out of five.

And, wow, disappointing.

And I did 15, but I also did the salad, too, so.

Man, I was.

I'm usually stuffed after 10 in a salad, so I had 15 in the salad.

I was pretty.

That's pretty stuff.

So I don't think I could.

The.

The.

The all you can eat is just not worth it to me.

It's not.

I'm not going to get my.

The bang for you.

It's all you can eat tonight.

You know what I mean?

I know, but I'm not gonna.

20.

20.

20 wings would be.

I'd definitely tap out.

I probably have no salad, and it's 25 bucks.

I don't think I.

I'd make out.

Well, I could, but should I?

That's the thing, right?

Could and should are two very strong words.

Because could I.

Yes, I could, but probably not.

Well, I mean, if you don't get fries.

You know what I mean?

If I close my eyes, I can See, my wife like looking at me like, you shouldn't do it.

I'm not going to tell you what to do, but I can't.

I can't support this.

That's what she would say.

So.

So anything else you like?

Like, what did you have for dinner tonight?

So I had a tuna fish sandwich tonight, mixed in some relish with it and there you go.

Okay.

Okay.

You know what?

I went to five guys, right?

And they had a.

They have a protein style burger with lettuce and they do mayo, ketchup and relish.

Delicious spread.

Mayo, ketchup and relish.

Yeah, they put it together.

You know, it's expensive, right?

Yeah.

So I can go to.

To in and out, get a protein style, seven bucks, you know, three by three, three cheeses, three meats there they have double with bacon and it was like 13 bucks.

But it was significantly better than in n out.

It was an upgrade.

Yeah, it was.

It was.

I wanted to stay in.

I didn't want to go out.

You know what I mean?

In and out.

It's just, it's.

It's good.

Yeah, it's a good burger.

Yeah, it's good.

Five guys was another level.

Good.

Wow.

Yeah.

No fries.

No fries.

The fries started like five bucks.

Yeah, they're all a cart, right?

Is that where they have the rosemary fries or am I thinking.

I think so.

Yeah.

It's five guys, right?

Is that how much of fries?

Five?

Five.

Oh, no, just the burger, please.

That's six.

I'm.

I'm good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think they give you like 10 bucks, but then they give you like a whole bag and then they just dump all kind of fries there.

I think one time I went there, I got the fries, the burger and the drink, and it was like 20 some ducks before by dynamics.

So it was in the real days.

So it was very expensive.

Yeah.

My word.

I haven't been to five guys and it's been a minute.

I haven't been there.

It's like the massage for, for that price we did.

There was a.

There's a burger joint we hit the other day.

I can't even remember the name of.

Is.

Yeah, I can't remember the name.

We were.

Must have not been good.

We were downtown.

It was pretty good.

It was okay.

I don't know that I.

It sounds like it's okay because you don't remember.

Is it Smash Burger?

Is that.

No, that's not a.

That's not a place.

Smashburger is okay.

It's good.

It's Smash it has its.

It has.

Dan, do you remember what the burger place was called?

All right, yeah.

In the.

In the day and age of Google, we still don't know.

I could probably.

Where was it at?

It was downtown.

It was like McDowell and 7th.

7Th Avenue.

7Th Ave.

Maybe.

Where Payways at.

And they have a bunch of restaurants, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think.

I think that's.

I think that's smash.

Is it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe it is.

I know that area fairly well.

It's a burger, Joe.

I mean, I know where all the restaurants are, so.

It was pricey, though.

I mean, I think Diana and I ate.

It was about 30 bucks, so, I mean, that was pretty pricey.

And it was okay.

It was.

The fries were actually pretty good.

I like the fries.

Not somewhere I'd want to go all the time, though, so.

And five guys is delicious.

I'll tell you what, though.

I'll be honest.

The.

The burger at B Dubs, it's pretty good.

Like, I like it better than the Chili's Burger.

I know I'm gonna hurt your feelings, bro, but I think I like it better than the Texas Roadhouse burger if we could add bacon to it, which I think you can.

Oh, dude, you can add bacon to anything.

Yes.

It's just.

Unless you're at in and out.

Oh, yeah, that's right.

That's right.

There's no bacon there.

That's where they.

They're missing it.

Yeah.

Maybe they're Jewish or something.

I don't know.

I don't want to.

It could be.

I don't know.

But they have Bible verse on their cups.

They do have Bible verses.

Yeah.

And on the bottom of the fries, right?

I think.

Yeah, yeah.

If I tell them, like, you guys should put bacon, they're like, hey, did you see the 60 cars in the drive thru?

Yeah.

I think we're doing okay.

Like, okay, I'm sorry.

I'll stay in my lane.

I'll shut up over here.

They know their business model.

I'll go to fries and get the Oscar Mayer already cooked bacon.

I'll add it, but.

Yeah, so you, like.

You said you liked B Does better than Texas Roadhouse Burgers.

You know, the.

The Texas Roadhouse burger is bigger.

They give you a bigger chunk of meat.

And the bacon is pretty good.

The bacon is really good.

But the taste.

I don't know.

The.

Whatever they put on the burger at B Dubs.

And it's greasy, too.

That's what I like about it, too.

Like, the bun's greasy, everything's greasy.

Like, it's just.

It's an unhealthy burger, but it's good.

It's definitely better than Chili's.

Definitely better than Chili's.

Have you tried Chili's?

New one, the Quarter Pounder?

I have.

Not that.

That is phenomenal.

Is it.

Is it a single or double meat?

So double Quarter Pounder or single?

I think it's single.

Okay.

But it's very good.

Really?

You know when they smash it and it crisped up the patty?

Oh, yeah, that's the best.

The texture.

That's why I used to like Freddy's, but Freddy's.

I don't know.

During Biodynomics, they.

Their patties got really small, but they.

But they smash them.

Get the crispy edges to, like Freddy's.

I lift up my shirt and said, this is what I want my patty to look like.

Right.

I don't.

I don't want whatever this is right here.

Like, come on.

Give me a break.

And Freddy's is kind of dirty.

Think so.

It's like the AMC of movies.

Like, it's always.

Like, do you guys ever mop in this place?

You know?

True.

This is terrible.

That's how I felt when we went to slim pickings or slim chickens or whatever.

Whatever it's called.

Is it dirty?

It was super greasy.

I was sliding, bro.

I was like, ice skating.

It was bad.

The electric slide, you know, like, practically pee.

You know, you probably could, man.

All right, so.

And just.

We'll move on here.

But you said you did live.

You do live by the loving hut.

Yes.

There's nothing loving about that.

No, it's if.

If you're not vegetarian.

And even if you are, I mean, I think it's just.

Did you try it?

I did.

My ex wife, she was vegetarian for a little while, and I would go with her sometimes, but it's just like cold, wet noodles.

A lot of their dishes are just not appetizing.

No, it's still in business.

It is.

I don't know how they're hanging on.

Wow.

That's real love right there.

Yeah.

Well, that's what they should name B dubs.

Love dubs.

Yeah, It's a good idea.

I mean, I've been married 25 years, but if she ever said, let's go to the loving hut, I'm like, don't do it.

No, don't do it.

There's nothing loving about that.

I couldn't do it.

I couldn't do it.

No, no.

It almost feels sinful to do it, bro.

Yeah.

I mean, run.

We're Under Grace, we moved on, so.

Yeah, no, thanks.

Hard pass.

Hard pass.

All right, well, let's get into some content here.

Before we get into the content, Visit us at AbundantLife FM.

You'll get a.

All of our show notes, especially for episode 67, and follow us on Instagram or Facebook.

And we're starting to put out some cool reels now, bro.

I found a cool app.

You did an awesome job on those reels.

It was AI that did that.

Doesn't matter.

And it's good.

It's like they, like.

I don't know, like, YouTube loved it.

Like, YouTube was, like, making some of these videos kind of viral.

It was kind of cool.

And Instagram didn't give me so much love, but.

No, they do not.

But they came out phenomenal, dude.

And it's cool because it does all the.

The subtitles and everything.

Like, it, like, I.

I literally just click and drag the video into the thing and it does everything like, It's.

It's cool.

20 bucks a month.

Easy, easy.

I get.

We gotta get some sponsors.

I told Nicole I gotta.

We gotta get some more sponsors for that 20 bucks a month.

Kiko.

Kiko, you listening?

My buddy.

Hook me up, brother.

All right, well, let's get in here.

So today we're gonna be talking with Cody and Cody.

Cody's gonna.

This is a really.

I've been really excited about this episode, and actually this morning I had a chance to listen to Cody on another separate podcast called Gospel Talks.

This is Pastor George's go check that one podcast.

So, yeah, if you.

If you get a chance, check out Gospel Talks.

It's really good.

And so Cody, Cody has transitioned from Mormon, being a Mormon to being a born again Christian.

And so this episode is going to be talking about his journey and everything that culminated with it.

I mean, there's a lot to it.

There's a lot to unpack with this.

So very excited about this episode.

And I think Sasso is going to kick us off with our key verses.

And from Galatians, I think it's galatians 1:6:8 or something like that.

Yes, sir.

Galatians 1:6:8.

The Bible says, I marvel that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ.

Unto another gospel, which is not another, but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

But though we are an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Right?

And so, you know, one of the things that I heard this morning in, in the podcast that you were on with Pastor George is that there's a lot of, a lot of terms in Mormonism and in Christianity that are very similar and, but, but the definitions are different.

They're definitely different and something that we're probably going to get into here shortly.

But first I just want to start off, you know, can you share a little bit about your, maybe your upbringing?

I know I think you had mentioned in the podcast you were, you were born into the, into the Mormon faith.

And just what was your understanding of God, Jesus and salvation and that sort of thing?

Yeah, sure.

So, yeah, I was born into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

I remember my 88 years old.

I was born, I was baptized into the church.

My grandparents, I remember, gave me my first set of scriptures, the Book of Mormon and the Bible.

Okay.

And from there I just did the things that were expected to be done in the church, all the way from serving a mission to I went to the BYU schools.

And as far as how I understood my relationship with Jesus Christ, it was something that I don't think I could really articulate at the time with as far as how that relationship played out in terms of my own fulfillment from within.

But now I would describe it as.

It always felt like I was lacking something where in Second Nephi there's.

It talks about in the Book of Mormon how you are saved by grace after all you can do.

And that's different from what it says in Second or in Ephesians chapter two.

Right.

You are saved by grace through, Through Jesus, through faith.

Through faith.

And it is a gift of God.

It's a gift of God.

It doesn't come from anywhere else.

And I did not receive it like that in the Mormon Church.

It did not come to me in the form of a gift.

It came to me as something I continually had to work towards.

Right.

And so growing up, something else that inhibited my connection to God in a performance based works, based religion was.

I had a pornography addiction.

And so that was very shaming for me to never really understand what repentance was in terms of.

In the Mormon Church, they say you need to confess and forsake your sins.

And when they say forsake, they mean it's only true repentance if you never do that sin again.

And so that's, that's different from how the Bible would expounds on, on what it means to forsake.

That's more of a turning your heart towards God and letting go of holding on to the sin.

Not that you won't ever sin again, but that you're turning your heart towards God.

And that.

That's something that was lost on me in the LDS faith because I wasn't forsaking the sin.

I kept returning to it and therefore it must have meant that it wasn't true repentance.

And what did that mean about me?

It meant that I wasn't worthy.

It meant that I was continually striving towards what seemed like to me as this performance that just never was enough.

And so yeah, it just got.

Got me locked in a shame cycle.

So you had mentioned that you got.

It was a Book of Mormon and a Bible.

Yeah, that was the bi.

The Bible.

Is that, was that a.

Like, what version was that?

Is that like a specific Mormon version of the Bible?

Was it.

Because I.

I'm not quite sure how that, how that works.

I know that Mormons read the Bible, but I'm not sure what, what version is that?

Yep.

So it's the, it's the King James Version with annotations and, and just edits from Joseph Smith that he did.

Oh, okay.

So it's actually edited.

It is there, there's some.

There's usually.

Wow.

Notations at the bottom when it is edited and it shows which it.

It's largely the King James Version.

It's really.

It's very close.

Okay.

The edits aren't that.

There's.

There's not that many edits to it.

But the claim that the.

The Mormon Church makes, I think it's the.

There's 13 articles of faith in the LDS Church and the 8th article of faith says that we believe.

We.

We accept the Bible as the word of God as far as it was correctly translated and that it lends itself to.

Or at least for me, I'll speak in first person.

I never was sure how much I could trust the Bible because I don't know.

I don't know which part.

They didn't conclusively or definitively state which parts were correctly translated.

They kind of just left it out there for I don't know.

I like how much I can trust this.

But you know, the Book of Mormon, let's, let's read that.

Because Joseph Smith said this is the most correct book of any book on earth.

And so when Joseph.

Everyone in the church knows that statement.

If you're been in the church long enough.

And so the priority is reading the Book of Mormon, the pri.

It's that the Bible is a second class citizen to the.

The Book of Mormon in, in the church, with that said, they encourage you to, to read the, the Bible, but it always seemed like to me like the directive was read the Book of Mormon first and, and then read the Bible.

Okay.

Always prioritize the Bible.

So you know, I, again with that statement in the article of faith number eight there, as far as it was correctly translated that, that just, I, I just wasn't able to trust the Bible because I, I just wanted to be a good member of the Mormon Church.

But then drawing towards the Bible, which is something I, I wanted to do more over the years as I was a member, I just kind of seemed in a position of conflict.

Yeah.

So you, you would say the Book of Mormon takes precedent over the Bible?

Absolutely.

And, and I think any, any faithful adherent in the LDS Church would say the same thing because I have a.

Buddy that you know, is a friend at work and in his door he does have the Book of Mormon, but I don't ever see it moved from the door.

But I'm sure he reads it and I, I was just curious because he would like quote it sometimes or say something.

I don't know.

Where did they get the names of the books?

Is it named after a prophet or.

There's a prophet in the Book of Mormon named Mormon and he was the, the reasoning behind it being named the Book of Mormon.

The, which I've heard over the years in the church is that he abridged the different books that supposedly came from multiple authors.

Right.

And so since he was the one that abridged, got dubbed the, the Book of Mormon.

But you know, I always, I kind of proposed out there, why, why don't they just call it Another Testament of Jesus Christ, which is the subtitle.

You know, it kind of just seems a little off that you would have it labeled the Book of Mormon when LDS people, they don't worship Mormon.

And, but yet his name's on the book and also that goes into that statue Moroni, the golden plated statue Moroni on top of temples.

I also find that misleading in terms of Mormons don't worship the angel Moroni at all, but yet they have the, the statute of him.

So Mormons wouldn't look at that as idolatry and they don't worship him in an idolatrous way.

But you know, why, why isn't it a statue of Jesus Christ if it's a statute of anybody?

And you know, there's not really an answer to that.

I'm Rebecca Mendez with Lamplight Ministries, where I serve the Lord by loving others.

Through biblical counseling and workshops.

Every day we're reminded of our fallen world through disappointment, grief, fear, despair.

We need a Savior.

And in Jesus Christ we have that Savior.

He came to rescue us, offering His Spirit to guide us and His Word to comfort, correct and lead us.

If you're a follower of Christ, eager to grow in Him, I'd be honored to walk this journey with you through one on one biblical counseling.

Together we'll explore God's word, find encouragement, and pursue faithful obedience to our Savior.

Please Visit me at lamplight ministries.com to book your appointment today.

So, so tell us a little bit about your, your conversion.

I know that's pretty recent and I, again, I heard you, I heard the story this morning on the, on the podcast with Pastor George.

But, but tell our listeners what, how, what did that look like?

Yeah, so I, I just had questions mounting over the years as far as my involvement with the church and if I felt like I was in alignment with my values and my beliefs and where my heart was at the time by continuing in the faith.

And it eventually got to the point where I just said, you know what, I'm not really moving anywhere in my spirituality.

I've just been the same person, it feels like, for years, and I just wasn't seeing any growth.

And so I think that was a big part of what eventually got me to find enough courage to take that first step outside of the church.

And that's a big deal for the LDS members as it is, I'm sure with a lot of other faiths where, you know, that was the religion of my family, a lot of my friends, lds growing up, the identity is so much wrapped around being lds.

And, but you know, over the years, my, my family, one by one, they had left the church or just stopped, stopped practicing religion altogether.

And so I would say I didn't have as much of a tie towards the LDS Church as some others might have because, you know, take the family in Utah, for example, who, the, the man of the family has all his business wrapped up and his LDS contacts and, and all his friends.

You know, it could be an even harder transition out of the religion for people like that.

So for me, I feel like I was fortunate in that I was able to more objectively kind of evaluate my situation based on how I felt with my relationship with God without a lot of the extra community aspects kind of pulling me back in.

And so that's not to say I didn't have a lot of friends still in the church.

I did and I still do.

But the.

The main thing was I wanted.

I wanted to move in an upward direction.

And I think part of me inside was just yearning for more.

And so I, I took that chance.

And it was almost immediately I.

I started experiencing growth, radical growth and very transformational type of growth where the, the plain reading of the Bible just spoke to me in such a healing and wholesome way.

It.

I.

I just kept turning back to it and looked forward to each.

We.

George and I, we visited at Starbucks every Thursday, and he was very generous with his time.

I think we spent, on average, at least an hour and a half, sometimes two hours on those Thursdays.

Now, Mormons don't drink coffee.

So you went to a coffee shop?

Yeah, yeah.

So.

Pastor George, come on, man.

I know, bro.

Come on, Jewish guy.

To eat a pork sandwich.

That's right.

That's right.

He was doing.

He was drinking the coffee right in front of me and.

Wow.

I, you know, I just barely had my first cup of coffee.

I would say maybe four months ago.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

First time in my life, really.

And, you know, I, I think it's a little bit of an acquired taste.

It definitely.

I'm still learning how to do that.

Trying to teach my wife.

My wife still does not drink.

Okay.

Okay.

Well, yeah, so just, you know, I, I'm just exploring kind of what.

What tastes good there.

Seeing the right balance with the half and half.

Right there.

You go heavy on that.

Right.

So, yeah, like I said, it was.

It was a great experience to, for me to that honeymoon phase of being introduced to, to the Bible in a way that, you know, getting into the, The Hebrew and the, The Greek and, And really like, peeling back.

What is it saying here?

What does this verb mean?

What's the etymology here?

You know, that was so helpful in, in me uncovering what is God's word.

What does he want?

Not.

Not something that's subjective or based on how somebody's feeling.

That's so prevalent in the Mormon Church.

How does it make you feel that that's just constantly being brought up?

Is that kind of.

I know I've heard of burning in the bosom.

Is that burning?

Is that kind of what you're talking about?

And, and that's kind of like the test of truth.

Okay.

If you feel good about it through what they.

They would say is promptings from the Holy Spirit, you got your answer.

But, you know, basing Your, Your search of truth based off of how you're feeling.

Dangerous.

Yeah, that is dangerous.

And I don't think LDS members know how dangerous that is.

I didn't even realize how dangerous it was.

It just.

That was what I knew.

That's what, that's what the standard or the test of truth was presented to me as.

And this is how God wants you to do it.

And they, they compare that to.

I think it's in James.

If, If God.

God will.

If you want to know the answer about something, then pray about it, and God will.

I'm totally butchering the scripture, so I don't even want to try quoting it.

But they say it says it right there in the Bible, and they kind of stretch it to their own interpretation.

And that's where, you know, feelings change.

How I felt 10 years ago about certain things is different how I feel now.

And using that as the compass for finding God's truth is very sketchy.

It's given me different answers over my life.

And anchoring to the Bible as the anchor of truth, that doesn't change.

Those words are preserved over all the years it's been in place, and that's where I can find my security and assurance of salvation on a whole nother level I never knew was possible previously.

Yeah.

I mean, because it seems like, you know, it's kind of like a moving target.

Right?

You're.

You don't know.

Like you said, it's.

If it's subjective and you just don't quite know, like, what's.

What is the truth?

If you don't know what truth is, like, what are you striving for?

What's the point?

Like, and our God is truth.

I mean, he's.

He's defined as truth.

He's not giving us the truth.

He is the truth.

He's the truth the way the life.

And, and so I think it's.

It's more comforting and it's more secure.

Right.

Because you're, you're, you're on a solid rock.

You're.

You're on.

You're built.

You're building your faith on the truth.

Well, I think things have changed too.

Right.

In the, in the Mormon Church, where I don't think they drank soda and then that came into play and, like, he'll tell me things.

Like, back in the day, there's, like, they were really frowned upon birth control, and then they've kind of eased up on that.

And it seems like as our society progresses in the wrong way as far as values concerned, like, they have to be appeasing to that crowd where I grew up in Christianity my whole life.

And it's the same.

Yeah.

The verses didn't change.

The.

I mean, the church may have changed as far as, like, you should wear a suit and things like that.

Dress code.

Yeah.

But on the major things, there's no.

Well, yeah, things that have changed.

It's the same.

It's like.

It's even like, you know, recently the.

The Pope of the Catholic Church passed away.

And from what I understand, this.

This particular Pope that passed away was a little more progressive, a little more liberal.

Then.

Then previous.

Really progressive.

Yeah.

Than previous popes.

And it's just like.

It's a moving target, man.

Like, why, if you're changing the rules all the time.

And that's what I love about the Scripture, that's what I love about our God.

Because he doesn't change.

He's immutable.

He doesn't change.

He's not one God.

Speaks.

Yeah.

He's not one God.

Someday and the next day a different God that you're like, you're, you know, walking on hot coals.

You don't know what to do.

Like walking on eggshells.

Like, am I messing up today?

Or what's the rule today?

Or are you changing today?

He doesn't change.

I don't think, really, to know God is to know that he's not out there looking to strike you down.

Yeah.

That he's merciful.

He's.

And because he's loving.

You go through consequences of sin.

Sure.

And it's because he loves you.

It's not because he.

I'm gonna give it to you today.

Yeah.

Like, your parents had a bad day at work and you messed up.

Like, I'm gonna get you.

He's waiting with the belt.

Waiting with them, just warming up in the bullpen, you know, their arm and getting the paddle ready.

And I think that's how we perceive God.

But that's not who he is if we truly know Him.

Right.

No.

Yeah.

And I.

You think of love, of mushy.

Mushy.

But love is sometimes, you know, chastisement, because you don't want that.

You know, if you have kids, you know, you're like, your central nervous system, right.

Is it's pain because your body loves you.

And like, hey, don't put your hand in the fire.

It hurts.

Oh, it hurts me.

Well.

Well, it's like, don't go running down the mountain, because when you fall, it hurts.

Like.

Okay, okay.

I'm sorry.

I walk.

I walk I walk.

So, yeah, I think, you know, that's Easter egg.

Yeah, Easter egg.

I will say, you know, LDS members do perceive God as a very loving God, but to your point, there have been a lot of changes in the church, and it has gone back and forth on different issues.

It has not stayed consistent.

Sometimes it changes to what is politically expedient or, you know, depending on the political landscape of the day, that the church has changed.

You know, with polygamy, the.

The US Government was going to shut it down, and then all of a sudden, the prophet got a revelation that, oh, God doesn't want us to practice this anymore.

And it's the timing of God, of what they say.

But, you know, it looks awfully like a coincidence with the timing of the US Government almost shutting it down.

And Mormons do drink soda.

I will say, okay, they do.

They.

And people think it's a caffeine thing, but they say it's not.

So they can drink soda, they can't drink coffee.

But, you know, you can knock back five Red Bulls and not have to worry about that being.

But did they ever ban that at some point when you couldn't drink soda?

I've never heard that.

Okay.

The most recent fake news on my.

Part, the most recent thing I heard they changed was with the garments that LDS members wear.

That for women, it was always these long sleeves.

And it was always talked about in Sunday school settings that that was for.

For modesty purposes.

And now all of a sudden, they've nixed the sleeves, and everyone's saying, well, what about all those modesty discussions that we had?

Wasn't this what God wanted us to wear these for purposes of modesty?

And now the church is saying, oh, no, no, it never was about modesty.

And so it's just little.

Little things like that back and forth that leave members kind of just always.

Wondering, is the prophet like the Pope?

I would say he's not revered as.

As much as the Pope, is he.

The.

The.

The LDS prophet is considered to have a direct line to God and to speak on behalf of all world matters, you know, with him receiving revelation for not just himself, but for everybody, specifically the church.

And so he.

He is revered.

He is in some ways praised, but I wouldn't say worshiped.

He's not a deity.

He's not a deity.

Yeah, okay.

Because I.

I mean, he had said.

He went.

They had a conference at BYU or the church there, and he was saying, the prophet told us this, like a revelation.

And I'm like, so there's a Changes from year to year.

Like, yeah, like, we have a theme right.

Of the year, but it's a charge from the Bible.

It's not like Pastor Shaw, you know, had buffalo wild wings and the chicken wings, told him, like, hey, you know, your women don't have to wear skirts.

They can wear pants to church.

I mean, that just seems really weird to me.

Or odd.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

So you, you were doing the exchange with Pastor George.

Now, was it through the exchange that you became a point again believer?

Is that where you got saved?

I think that was a big factor of the, the watering and the nurturing, the planting that happened with me, and just God being able to use George as the vessel he was in that process.

My daughter, she's 8 years old now, she was probably 7 at the time.

We were vacationing in Prescott, Arizona at an Airbnb, and it was just such a beautiful day filled with just wonderful blessings and just a lot of connection with my family and just God opening up my eyes to what he was doing.

He's.

He was doing with me in my life and just so much healing with.

Within my family and, and just the.

I.

I just felt so much just the realization of how Jesus died for my sins.

He.

He finished the work on the cross.

He.

He finished the work and, and he is enough.

There's nothing I need to do to be saved other than believe in Jesus Christ that He is Lord and acknowledge that he is risen from the dead.

And not just acknowledge that, but to trust and depend on him to incorporate that into my life and how I live and turn towards God with my heart and knowing that that's it.

There's no other qualifiers to that statement in, in believing in Jesus Christ and that I have confidence and assurance in my.

Of my salvation, and I never had that previously.

And that's made such a difference.

Knowing that God can meet me where I'm at with grace and that no matter where I'm at, no matter, you know, what.

What may come, he did.

He did the work.

It's finished.

And my belief in him secures that salvation.

Yeah, I guess it's kind of difficult if you're, if you're trying to obtain salvation through grace, after all you can do, because how much is enough?

Like, how do you know you've done enough?

You know, and so what.

At what point?

You know, where's the line?

Yeah, where's the line?

Like, it's.

I don't know, I.

I guess I would struggle with not knowing.

I mean, I'll be honest, even as a Christian, I've had doubts of my salvation.

I've had, you know, bits of time where I've just doubted my salvation.

And I think every Christian goes through that.

But at the end of the day, I know that Jesus died for my sin.

When he said it is finished, it was finished.

And when he rose from the dead, I mean that, that was it.

Like there was nothing else to be done.

Like it was it.

And, and I put my faith in that.

I put all my eggs in that basket.

But yeah, I think it would be difficult for me to know how good, how much is enough.

And I think, I think any works based religion, if there's a religion that you're in that is works based, which, anything outside of being a born again believer Christian is a works based religion.

How much is enough?

Like how, how much do you have to do?

I mean, I know there's, you know, there's even the extreme Muslims that will die for their faith and they'll kamikaze a jet into a twin tower.

But how, I mean, was that enough?

You know, I think that's where we get the second part of that verse where he says, not a works that any man should boast.

Because I mean, if you have a team of people right at work, typically there's like one or two top performers, a couple people that are medium performers, and then you have one or two bottom performers and they could potentially all get paid the same.

But the people that are top performers, they do more than the people that are bottom performers.

I think that's where that verse comes from because it's eliminating works by saying, well, while Ben did 60%, I did 61%.

So I mean, I need a bigger mansion.

I did more for my salvation than he did for his.

And God says, nope, we're all level.

Your righteousness is filthy rags.

It means nothing.

Yeah, and it's dependent on me.

Because if it dependent on you, it's not good enough.

Right.

We all fall short.

And I think that latter part of that versus not it works is because we would right any.

I mean we, we know people that I make the best pancakes or I do the best of this or I do the best of that.

And yeah, and they one up you on everything.

And it's like, I've tasted your pancakes.

They're not that great.

Okay.

Just for the record, they're okay.

Yeah.

And I think that's what happens when, you know, if we could Work towards it.

And I think my.

My friend, and I'm concerned for him, and I think he's a morally decent person.

I mean, he'll let a swear word pass here and there.

So does that, you know, draw the line down of where he should be?

Where maybe another person would not say that.

And it's exhausting to.

To live like that.

And right now we can just rest in the finished work of Jesus Christ.

It doesn't give us an excuse because he said, shall we continue in sin?

That grace may abound, God forbid.

But we don't have that hanging over our head, right where it's a wrath of God.

If I have a bad couple days, it's.

It's.

Yeah, you know, come ask for First John 1:9.

Right.

If we confess our sins, that door is always open for us.

And I think when you talked about, like, you know, you were living in that fear or that cycle of shame or whatever that is, that he doesn't remember one sin from the other.

And he even told us right as he walked this earth, you are to forgive your brother 70 times 7.

So even if he does the same offense to you, you know, what is God, he has no limit, right?

When he died on the cross, like all my sins were future.

And that's what I say, that he's the only relationship.

Like, if your wife knew what a scumbag you would be at times, she would not marry you.

She would not sign up for that.

I know my wife would not.

She would have signed that prenup so fast.

But God knew all that.

And he said, I still going to enter into this relationship because I love you beyond what you could ever imagine.

And it's.

There's no conditions attached.

It's you.

It's a free gift.

And all you have to do is accept it.

And we're just so used to, you know, well, Cody bought me lunch, so I gotta.

Next time we go, I gotta buy him lunch because we feel that obligation.

Or you might say, yeah, salsa, better buy me lunch.

I took care of him, you know, and he ate a lot, and he even got extra cheese on his burger.

But God, God does not like that, right?

And he wants us to serve him and do things for him out of love, not out of obligation.

And there's a big difference when you start living for God out of love and not because I feel obligated to do our comp.

I mean, mean, we should be compounded with love, right?

You said that so well, if that could really be understood in the.

The lds Church, what that looks like, you know, obligation versus it.

Just being born within you as a born again Christian.

Yeah.

I think there would be a mass exodus out of the LDS Church.

But how do you, how do you articulate that?

How do you describe that to, to somebody of a faith that's only known one way?

Yeah, I don't know how to do it.

And I've been on both sides now.

I've been in the church and I've been out of it and I'm just trying to play around with, hey, what's, what's the best way to approach this where I'm not going to come across as offensive or, you know, not so much worried about offending people because.

Right.

What, what does Paul say in Galatians that, you know, am I here to please people or am I here to please God?

If I was here to please people, then I wouldn't be a servant of Christ.

Christ.

Yeah.

And so I, it's not about offending, but the prejudice that, that's what I'm trying to be very careful with because it's very easy, you know, for to step into prejudice and judgment and see, you know, make a, a blanket statement.

Like I, I even heard growing up in Texas one time, all Mormons are going to hell.

Well, that sounds like judgment.

Right.

And that, that sounds like cross.

We don't know that.

That sounds like crossing the line.

There's only one judge.

It's, it's God.

He knows what our salvation is.

And so, you know, LDS people are very sensitive to those kinds of judgments.

And, and anything that even could be perceived as a judgment, even if it's just a Christian talking from a place of conviction, you know, that, that could be very offensive to a Mormon.

And so if the, if the point is to have productive dialogue to where we're building bridges and witnessing in an effective way where Christ can use us as the vessels we hope to be, then it's a delicate balance.

It's a delicate balance to strike.

But like you were talking about, if we can just articulate in a way where it could be understood by members in the Mormon Church of what does a relationship with Jesus Christ look like out of obligation versus it just being born naturally within us as those new creatures with new desires, new motives that, that are, that just come with being born again, I mean, that would sell itself.

But how do you, how do you describe that?

Yeah.

How do you fully leave, to experience that right?

To leave all that behind and say, I wanna, I want that.

I mean, that's there's a lot of consequences on this earth where you might lose your family, you might lose your friends, but you, you go to the truth.

I mean, I, I think it's for him.

I'm, you know, I'm, he's my friend.

He's probably my best friend at work, you know, as they would say, whatever.

And I'm just concerned, you know, because he is a decent human being and I just like, man, but this, this is the truth.

Like, you would, you would love it, but you got to come over.

And I think in the same breath he thinks the same thing of me.

Like, oh, he's a good friend and he needs to, like, he's trying to get me to come and things like that because he cares about me in his own way.

But it's tough.

I get it.

Yeah.

Like it's.

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And I think that's probably the hardest thing, right?

Because I bet you, I would be willing to bet there's a lot of Mormons that are maybe in a place kind of like you.

They were maybe curious or maybe even just not quite satisfied or they're just wondering like, is this real or is this, you know, why am I not feeling like this confirmation from the Holy Spirit or why.

Why am I not growing in this faith?

Like, I think there's probably other people that are other LDS members that are just like that.

And, and, but maybe there's a fear because of the consequences of what if, if, if Christianity is correct and they move over there, there's consequences, right?

I mean, you're, you could potentially use friends, family.

I mean.

Right?

I mean you probably could speak better to this than, than I would because you probably know.

But what would you say to that?

Like, is it.

Do you think that's a, that's a big hindrance?

I think the bigger hindrance would be just not knowing the difference, not knowing that something else out there exists okay.

And not being able to compare and contrast in your mind, what does it.

Look?

I, I think a lot of members in the, the Mormon Church do have a fear like you're talking about, but I think it's, it, It's a lot of times more at the subconscious level.

Okay.

Of.

Okay.

I'm not consciously aware of what's keeping me in a state where I'm not feeling like I'm, I'm getting that growth that I want.

And part of me feels malnourished, but I think that's more some of the, the groanings of the soul that aren't always verbalized.

At least it was for me.

And I've seen it with other members too.

Friends that I've had personal conversations with that.

It's just not always at that surface level.

Level where it can, you can put your finger on it.

Yeah.

Because there's just so much else going on in terms of the, the belief system in the Mormon Church and how that, how members gravitate towards that.

And I think the church is very good at inoculating its own members against the, the arguments that Christians sometimes present.

Sure.

And, hey, you guys might be missing the mark when it comes to grace and, and how someone is saved and, you know, you might be a workspace organization here.

Would you like to look at.

And there's lots of arguments against that to counter it.

There's lots of really smart people in the LDS Church, apologists, just like in a lot of other religions.

And.

But it is mental gymnastics.

It was for me with trying to make everything fit.

And I, I think I, I did have fear of leaving the church in terms of just not knowing what, what the something else looked like.

Yeah.

You know, I, When I took that first chance of going to a Protestant Christian church, Northwest State Valley Baptist, that first Sunday, I was thinking in my, my mind, I said, you know, if I find even more grievances with this place than I had with the Mormon Church, I'm.

I'm probably just going to be done with religion altogether.

And I really had that in my mind because I'm just.

I was really already burnt out with religion at that point with.

In terms of that malnourishment I was experiencing in the LDS Church, that spiritual malnourishment where I was very grateful that that wasn't my experience.

But I've seen so many times when people have left the LDS Church just from a spiritual malnourishment place, and they're so burnt out with the concept of religion, they don't even have anything to do with God from that point forward.

There's a lot of members that leave and turn agnostic or atheist.

I see that a lot.

And so I have, I have people approaching me members in the church and outside of the church, some, a lot of times saying it's just unusual that somebody leaves the Mormon church and they're, they're joining another Protestant Christian church.

And how is that like for you?

And like what, you're not bitter?

Why are you not bitter about and just ranting about the LDS Church and all the grievances you have with it?

And I just, I didn't go through that phase.

Yeah, I, you know, God in, in his graciousness with me and my path that he set for me, he allowed me to immediately substitute the LDS Church with something that, what I, what I see now and, and believe as the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

The plain reading of the Bible.

What does it say there?

It's, it's not complicated.

It, it says it repeatedly by multiple authors.

It's been validated as a historical document that, that has other external sources that it links to, to validate it.

And that's just not the case with the Book of Mormon.

Right.

And so yeah, I didn't go through the bitterness phase.

I, I have, I, I know people in the church that feel like they were duped when they leave the church.

And what that looks like though to an LDS member who's, who's faithful to the LDS Church is, oh, that, that person, they just weren't righteous enough or spiritual enough and they're just bitter about life and they're just a bitter person and, and they couldn't cut it, you know, with.

And so it, it does paint a very bad picture in, in LDS members minds when, when someone leaves the church that way.

So I see both sides of it.

Yeah, I see that.

The, the resentment.

I understand the resentment.

It's just something I never really gravitated towards when I left the church.

I think part of it too is because if, I think if you convert to a true gospel, there's fulfillment there.

That hole that you felt.

Right.

Because it fell short of the true gospel.

And I think once you're fulfilled, there's really no reason for me to attack or to be resentful because I found what I was looking for all along.

And I think if you're, if you don't convert and you just leave, then you look back like a teenager that never grows up.

Right.

I think when you get to be in your 30s or 40s or hopefully your 20s, you understand your parents.

Not that they were perfect, but you get why they said no or why they didn't allow certain things.

And some people never mature beyond that.

They grow up with bitterness towards their parents.

And they're like, I should have been.

Especially when you, if you grew up in a Mormon home or even Christian home, they're very strict.

It's not like you were allowed to do things other kids were doing.

And I think at times as a teenager you become resentful and then you grow up, you're like, oh, yeah, that, that does make sense.

Like, well, now I'm grateful you said no to a lot of things that I wanted to do.

Yeah.

And I think because you mature to that and I think with religion you mature to that next level.

Like, yeah, I could be grievances, but really that's what they believe.

But man, God's filled me with so much that there is no room for that.

Right.

Because if I do, then I'm sinning because I'm resenting, I'm holding bitterness.

And I think there's a righteous anger for like, why didn't you tell me the truth?

And because they don't have it, they don't know it.

Yeah.

So I think it's just a different perspective because you are full of that whole that, that God filled hole that everyone has until we accept him and then he, he makes us complete and he becomes enough for us.

Yes.

Yeah.

So you, you mentioned that you came to Northwest Valley Baptist Church and this is.

Prior to you, you didn't have an invitation or it was in Pastor George.

So I'm just curious, like, what prompted you to, to come that day?

Like, I mean, I mean I was God moving.

I know God was drawing you.

I.

But what, I'm just, how did that, how did that go?

Like.

Yeah, so basically I, I wanted to find another religion that had the biggest de.

Emphasis on the institution itself and the greatest emphasis on the direct relationship with Jesus Christ.

Okay.

Because the LDS Church has such a great emphasis on the institution.

I think most religions do.

Right?

I think most religions are about the, the church.

The, you know.

Yes.

Not.

Yeah, yeah, right, right.

Yeah.

The Mormon Church certainly isn't unique.

The Catholic Church too.

Right.

Yeah.

And so what popped up were, after I did just some, some research was Baptist and Presbyterian.

Those are the two that I landed on that fit that, that qualifier that I was looking for.

And really the, the difference between going with a Baptist versus Presbyterian came down to.

Okay, which one seems like they're following The Bible as, as closely as possible.

And, you know, the sprinkling on the bap, the, with the water for the baptism with Presbyterians, that didn't seem like it.

It was biblical.

It, it was by immersion that the baptism, Baptism.

Baptisms were done in the Bible.

So that, that really was the, the thought process there.

And I said, okay, I'll try out a Baptist church.

And yeah, from, from there it was.

So did you Google it or how did you find Northwest?

I Googled it.

I looked at the Google ratings.

Oh, wow.

There's some bad ones in there.

Well, no, it was like 4.8.

It was like, it was pretty high.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think we have some fake news stuff in there.

Yeah, maybe it's been knocked a little bit lately, but yeah, when I was looking at it, 100, it was.

Yeah, the Google ratings are part of what drew me in.

I said, you know, a lot of people are having good experiences here.

I'll give it a shot.

That's cool.

That's.

That's awesome.

So we can start closing up here, but I want to give you the opportunity to just express, you know, you're talking to a Mormon right now, and what would you say to a Mormon right now?

Like, I mean, you've had this tremendous transformation.

I mean, and, you know, you're growing by leaps and bounds, and you have this special relationship with Jesus and it's real.

Like, it's, it's not like pie in the sky and you're trying to search for it and you're not trying to do your best until you hit grace.

And, you know, what would you say to a Mormon, you know, and, and I love your, your, your heart because you, you, you aren't bitter about any of it.

You're, you know, you're, you're loving still on your Mormon friends.

And I think that's how it ought to be because of, just like you said, the, the, the playing field is level at the bottom of the cross.

It's level for all of us.

And we're all there.

We're all sinners, and we, and we have the opportunity to be saved by grace.

But what would you say to a Mormon?

I would say the biggest thing that I probably could say in terms of convincing a Mormon that I found a more fulfilling way, a closer relationship with Jesus Christ is just by sharing what it looked like for me before and what it looks like for me now.

And I can say just with sharing a story and experience about my own life.

And I did really try.

I prayed and I read scriptures, Book of Mormon, Bible, I went to church, I had various callings.

So it wasn't a lack of effort.

I just did not have the.

So with that divorce, I ended up spiraling downward in a very negative downward cycle.

You know, with being promiscuous, one night stands for the first time in my life.

I had never done that before, you know, with the, the dating apps and all of that.

It was very different from the very conservative life I had previously, but just different things like that marijuana sort of started smoking that and doing the edibles and just getting further and further away from God and even questioning God if he was good or if he's real or, you know, is Jesus Christ even.

Was he real?

Is this Bible fabricated?

Is, you know, all religion fabricated?

And I was going to a dark place.

And you know, I'm comparing that to now and, and I am still having, I'm on my second marriage right now.

And ever since I was saved and born again, there are.

It is totally different in terms of how I'm approaching things.

I still have struggles that I'm going through and God is still cleaning house within me right now and chastising me.

And that has been a very challenging experience for me to go through and have the Lord set me straight with these new desires and new motivations.

But instead of it being this insurmountable task that I can never achieve, you know, God's giving me that assurance that I'm, that He's with me and all I need to do is just keep, keep believing in Jesus Christ that He's the answer and depend on him and trust him with.

And so I share this because, you know, where I'm at right now in my second marriage, with things still being put in order in my, my life and in my household, my, my wife and I, we actually separated four months ago.

And you know, if this was the old Cody, the old me, I would have done the same thing before.

I would have, you know, engaged in the promiscuous sexual activity again.

And, and I don't.

Marijuana or maybe I would have tried another drug by now.

I'm not doing that now.

I'm at home and I'm grateful and I'm having conversations with God daily knowing that I don't know if me and my wife are gonna reconcile, but that's not leading me to these states of extreme anxiety.

God has Replaced those, that, that, those feelings of anxiety with his love and the knowledge that he's there and he's watching over me and I have the assurance of my salvation and what's happening in my life.

Even though I'm still going to be going through challenges, I know I'm walking with God.

And this is totally different.

The old me, I would have spiraled into the same, those same behaviors.

I'm not, I'm not struggling with marijuana anymore.

I'm not struggling with wanting to see other women to fill those voids or, you know, do those same distractions and escapes that I was doing before.

I, I can turn to the Bible and, and pray to God and have that fill me in ways that it's, it's so nourishing and just so healing to have every single day with the knowledge that God is with me, that he is real, that Jesus is Lord, that he is risen, and that there, I, I don't, I don't need anything else.

I don't need to show up with anything other than my faith in Him.

That's it.

Amen.

And it's been so transformative for me with that knowledge and just comparing and contrasting that time of when my first marriage failed to where my second marriage is still in a very real state of repair right now without, you know, any promise of it going one way or another.

It's, it's a.

That state of uncertainty really doesn't seem like a state of uncertainty because I have, I have God with me.

Amen.

Amen.

I mean, I think that's kind of, you know, what, we kind of preach it ftl, God's enough and he should be right.

He should be all that you need.

I mean, he should satisfy you.

And that's, that's how you achieve contentment, you know?

Yeah.

Because, I mean, tomorrow night, right, that's we're going to talk about.

But I think when you have an addiction or, you know, you're.

We're attracted by sin because sin is fun for a season.

The Bible tells us that it's a lie of Satan.

And I think, well, I know all religion that is not in faith in him alone is a lie of Satan.

It's a deception.

And I think, you know, Catholics, Mormons, they get close to the truth, but it's not the truth.

And just as they would say, right, if you had 1% arsenic, would you eat that chicken wing?

Yeah, like, of course not, because they'll kill me.

But that's what Satan does.

He pollutes the waters and it Sounds good.

It looks good.

I'm with the culture of people that are my friends.

They're friendly.

Our tradition.

Our tradition.

Like, my parents believe this, you know, Hispanics, Catholic, Catholicism.

Right.

It's a.

Yeah.

And then you learn, like, that's.

That's not the truth.

And.

Yeah.

And that's Adam and Eve.

He told them, your eyes will be open.

And they were, but not how they thought they were.

Right.

And so that's what he does.

He pollutes that, you know, other religions with the truth of things that sound good, but a little bit of, you know, not truth is not true.

If.

If it was all just lies, it'd be a lot easier to discern.

Yeah.

Right.

But that.

That mixture of truth and lies, that's.

Yeah, that's hard.

And I think we had Tony here last time, and he said, I am committed to.

This is real in my life and AA and all those things.

Rehab centers.

That wasn't it.

I can.

This is like, this is real to me.

I think that's what you're saying.

Like, this is different than you would have been if you were still relying on.

Because it's on you.

Right.

And when it's on him, it's a lot easier than, say, God, I can do this.

You know, it's not in my power.

You know, I'm a sinner.

I need your help.

And this picture right here where he sticks out his hand and he's like, I'm here to help you.

And that's like, wow.

Yeah.

Mind blowing.

Like, praise God that you're.

You're here to help me.

I'm not in this alone.

And you, like, in all ways.

Right?

He was tempted, just like man, yet without sin.

Like, he's acquainted with grief.

He's acquainted with our infirmities.

Yeah.

He walked the walk.

And that's just like, we do have a perfect example.

And not Pastor Shaw.

Right.

I've seen him get mad or whatever.

He's not perfect because he's a man.

And me as well.

And.

But we do have a standard that we can look to.

Like, wow.

That's who I aspire to be every day.

Amen.

Amen to that.

Cody, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show.

Thank you for your transparency, for your insights and.

And man, what a.

What a testimony, man, that.

That transformed lives.

I love that.

I mean, I think we mentioned that in the last podcast with Tony.

Just.

Just seeing that transform life is just amazing, you know, from.

You know, from being dead to, I mean, live in Christ and it's just behold, behold, behold.

Things become new.

Yeah, things become new.

So thank you again for, for joining us and yeah, hope to have you maybe again on the show another time.

And, and yeah, so anyway, I would love to just ask our, our listeners out there if this episode has been a blessing to you.

I'd ask that you subscribe to the show again.

Visit us at AbundantLife FM, check us out on Instagram and Facebook and we will see you in the next episode.

And you can donate there as well.

There's a donate button.

There's a big green donate button on the, on the opponent life.

20 bucks for those reels.

Come on.

Yep.

Thank you guys for listening.

We'll see you next time.

All right, bye for now.

Thank you for listening to the Abundant Life podcast.

We pray you were blessed by today's episode.

Please visit us online at Abundant Life fm.

Until next time.

May God bless you.

Sa.